<p>hello everyone this is Cole lions from the CX matters podcast I am joined by one of my colleagues from Jefferson health plans and a mentor of mine cat ker I'm very excited to have you on cat please introduce yourself and thanks for having me Cole I'm so excited to be here so I am the associate vice president of M experience for Jefferson Health Plans I've been at Jefferson for almost three years but prior to that I've spent about the last 12 years in man care I've worked for UPMC Health Plan optim Home and Community Plan and capital Blue Cross but I've been in health care for about [Music] years I what's interesting too is you speak at these conferences you are very involved in mentoring and teaching people about how to have great customer experience teams you focus on the internal and the exter external customer and a lot of your presentations so you're seen as an expert in this space by many and I want to ask how did you get into it initially what was that spark that started you off in the customer experience realm so I think there's really two things there you know my personal story and then curiosity that I had since I was a child I have known since the time I've been about six or seven I wanted to work in healthcare I had a microscope that my mom bought me raised by a single mom so you know I think that also leads into why I work not just in health care but in Health Equity today because I grew up in a a lowincome neighborhood with a single mom who was struggling to make ends meet but when I was young I always wanted to be in health care my mom Someday I'm gonna test the blood of older people and that kind of has parlayed Into Me finishing my masters in public health but you know beyond just the way that I was raised and being able to see people from low-income neighborhoods and really the struggles that they had in adequate food and stable housing stable jobs even pollution in the neighborhood or transportation to doctor's appointments um my son suffered a brain injury when he was three months old and he was not expect survive so was flown to Hershey Medical Center he was seen by one of the nation's leading neurosurgeons and he said I can't tell you what will happen when we discharge you from the hospital but expect that the prognosis might be poor especially later in Aiden's life when he grow up so it was really the experience of being at Hershey we were there hospitalized in the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit for about 14 days and being with social workers and doctors and at that point I had just finished my undergrad degree in premedic I had plan and Aidan's birth changed all of that for me and I had to figure out something else that I could do to be impactful in healthc care and think about our members and our patients and our customers at the center of what we do and I always said that to my higher power if you you know save his life and get us through this I will spend the rest of my life devoted to others and giving back to others in the community and so today he is 18 He will be graduating from Cyber Charter School next month um at the beautiful hands of my mother who has been a tremendous impact in my life and she's been my right hand so that's really what has kept me in healthc care I've been here for 27 years and people are always say to me how do you have the passion every day how do you have that energy to go to work and get up in the morning and it's the same kind of energy every day it's because of the experience that I had with Aiden and you know where I am today in my career congratulations on your and and you and your whole family for him hitting that Milestone and it's an exciting time for your whole family as well because you're also just graduating recently with your M which you've been working on for a while while managing your family responsibilities and your senior leadership role what was the reason that you chose to pursue that M pH since you had already achieved this you know great role at at jhp what what motivated you to keep advancing your education I really believe in being a lifelong learner and that is why I go to a lot of these conferences because even at the end of the day even if you have a doctorate or you have a medical degree there's only so much you can learn in the classroom and then on cutting edge of technology and health care you have to keep going back and learning from best practices of your peers and I think learning from Cross Industries and I know we're going to get into a little bit about the focus of CX and how it's change through the pandemic and post-pandemic but you know learning from what retail does or what uh financial services does has really kind of maximized the customer experience so you've been to a lot of conferences you've gotten this education 27 years of experience I want to ask you a really important question to our audience which is what is your definition of customer experience so customer centricity is really putting the customer at the center of everything that we're doing and making sure that they are having the best in- class experience again thinking about the experiences that they're now expecting that they get in Commerce or they get in financial services a lot of our patients our members our customers if you're working outside the healthcare industry now are expecting that Innovative experience so you know for us at Jefferson health plans it's really putting that member at the center of what we're doing and you know what changed for us is when we came out of the pandemic especially I'd say more so in 2023 members started saying saying to us I don't want to call you I want to see you in person I want to be able to walk into one of your member centers and have my question answered so you know we really have reopened our community Wellness Center that's located in West Philadelphia to ensure members can walk in and they can attend Fitness class or they can have a health screening they can meet with member relations or meet with one of our Medicaid Navigators if they don't have health care and they're struggling to understand what benefits are available but I think even beyond that we're trying to be very Innovative with the Jefferson health system and thinking about where can we embed Navigators into clinical settings and mainly Clinic settings to help those that are uninsured or underinsured understand what are all the benefits out there for them things like Wick and snap and Li heat and how can we connect them to that service so really it's meeting that individual where they are whether that is a Vega that's a grocery store that is their you a neighborhood laundromat and we know we see great organizations like fabric Healthcare and they're meeting again our members where they really are so that's really what customer experience means to make how does this definition of customer experience and what people are demanding you know really asking they want to see us in person they want us to meet them where they are this is what they need how does that compare to what they they were really needing before the pandemic yeah so I think pre pandemic we look at scores from presy which is a survey arm that most healthcare companies are very familiar with so presy really is taking that customer sentiment or that customer score and what they found is that pre pandemic and post-pandemic if a member individual accessed the same services at both times they were less satisfied post pandemic and I think during the pandemic we saw shift where we saw being able to order things through Amazon or you know instacart and door Dash Uber Eats really took off with being able to provide you know that customized experience to people right at their doorstep and so now we see that customers members patients they're experiencing and expecting that same service level that they get from Amazon and they want to chat with someone or they want to know that the problem is being resolved the first time so I think the shift that we've seen now is how do we incorporate artificial intelligence how do we incorporate assist of Technologies and things that our members really need so that's really the shift that came in with customer experience I think and it's not just thinking of the members and the patients but also you know I'm very big on employee experience so in all of our Industries we have many Frontline employees that are experiencing the same instability in housing in food security safety that our members and patients are experiencing so it's also how do we think about creating that excellent customer experience but it has to start with the employee we need to be able to put programs into place that really are closing the gaps in Health Equity for our employees as well I want to ask about that though because that seems like it's a CH challenging you know customer experience is often seen by you know the financial side of organizations as kind of a black box right you put money into it but you never really know what comes out the other side how are you able to convince leadership you know and at Jefferson Health Plans our leadership is really on board with what we're doing they're very motivated but how can some of our audience convince their leadership that some of this rapid change is necessary especially where we've been following One path pre-pandemic these you know two or three years later all of a sudden we need to change directions what are some of the skills you're employing to get that direction change in action yeah so I think for customer experience leaders for you know anyone customer experience that wants to have that as a future there's a couple skills you need to have so one is storytelling it's the ability to tell the member story or the patient story to se Suite to board Executives in a way where they can really they're driving the value back home to them so it's storytelling but then it's also data sharing and how do we share data in a meaningful way and I think packing packaging your data so you can see okay there has been a shift in the member counts that we have in our membership we're growing we're retaining members again regardless of the industry that you're working in so I think that's really where the value is and you know what we're seeing is really it's it's not the best way to proceed forward because the CX is so crucial to every organization's road map an encompassing strategy that's holistically caring for people and you know what that means is we're carrying through the stages of Life the whole Spectrum so if we look at a Health Plan like ours are caring for people through birth through the end of their lives you know across not just at the health plan side but the health system side and I always tell people Healthcare is the only value added service that stays with us through the cycle of life you know you probably aren't going to get a cell phone till maybe you're 12 13 14 maybe it's later but Healthcare is going to start the moment that you enter this world and that CX experience starts the moment that you enter this world and you know it's very impactful I started as a nursing assistant at the bedside in acute care and that's really what drove me into this experience and why I am so passionate and why I can see you know and now being in leader leadership I still see that value back at the bedside and I still see every single patient or member that we're serving as a person and again it's that holistic shift in caring for the whole person not just caring for their physical health but their emotional health their mental health their spiritual health you know we do a lot in making sure that we are out at places of faith-based to make sure that everyone knows what we do here at Jefferson health plans and the value that we bring so you know I say that to say that it really starts in that beginning of the life and it continues throughout the whole life cycle with Healthcare yeah that being holistic is so important and I'm sure that there was probably a lot of discussion around that in my MBA right now we're discussing balancing the business canvas and so this is a question that kind of comes from that why not focus only on the external customer only on the members and why not put all the money in there and then not put as much investment towards the employees it starts with the employee experience so if we have an employee in a call center that is struggling maybe they don't have consistent internet or there's issues that they can't bring their best off to work then they can't care for our members in the best way so if we're not really focused on what experience are they having are they coming to work are they engaged then that customer service translates to what our members are receiving what the patients are receiving and they always know I've worked in call centers where the member will call back in and say it sounded like that rep really was having a bad day and it was a not so great experience for me but we've also heard the same things you know in medical practices and specialy care so for me it has to start with the employee we have to make sure employees are having that experience that they're engaged and they have all of the information at their fingertips they know the direction that the organization is going they know where they fit into that piece of the puzzle you have to prioritize that in order to get that great customer service that we expect from all the the services that we receive today of course Jefferson Health Plans has industry leading call center pay we're better than most of the other uh call centers in Philadelphia along with our you know vacation package is excellent and so aside from those kind of easy to adjust issues you know you give people more money you give people more vacation time that doesn't always work though you can't just you know give people all kinds of money to work in a bad environment one thing people say is that it's kind of like a family at jhp I want to ask your team especially has I've met with a lot of members of your team they all are very fond of working with you what have you done to create a culture that makes you know basically if you take away pay and take away the vacation time what else have you done that's made it a really great place to work under your team so I believe in bringing whole self to work in a way that's um reliable it's the same version that you can expect of me every day so I have coffee with them every week for 15 minutes and the only rules that we don't talk about work we talk about what's going on for the weekend and I think taking a personal interest I get a question often about how do you develop boundaries well you still have to have boundaries I'm not out having drinks with my staff on the weekend but I do know the issu that they're struggling with and I've had staff members come to me and say hey I'm going to need 15 more minutes added to my lunch because I need to go to the food bank today and that really hits home and I think being that leader that the staff feel comfortable coming with and I do know the issues that they're struggling with and trying to really make this kind of family feel at Jefferson we have great leadership that really works well together you know it is also providing the staff experiences that may they may not be able to afford on their own so for our call centers we've taken them out to Top Golf we take all of our members and our employees out to the Philadelphia Zoo every year and you know we get anywhere from 3 to 5,000 individuals coming out to visit with us and so that's an experience that not every member can afford certainly especially if they have children but it's also an experience not every employee can afford P rols I've sent my staff flowers on Mother's Day or flowers on patient or Employee Appreciation day and I've had staff say I've never gotten flowers before so I think for me it's thinking about experiences that I can give them and it's not just the financial experiences or something that's tangible it's also exposure so who do you want to meet in the organization who do you want to meet outside of the organization when I speak locally I'll invite some mentees that I'm mentoring or my employees to say hey do you want to come out with me to the event do you want to meet this person and I think 15 or 20 years they're going to remember that person that I introduced them to or that connection they made that maybe open the door to another opportunity so that's really why I prioritize making sure my employees are seen they feel heard and they feel valued to and I felt that when I was at 1101 Market the center city office it was unbelievable that our desks as a junior employee is 10t away from the CEO's office and so I think it's that trust like you said networking with different people that you wouldn't have expected to network with coming out of undergrad or just as a call center individual so that's wonderful and I want to ask another thing is how are you empowering your staff to go above and be and this is kind of a difficult question but to go above and beyond for the members how are you keeping those Members First in the minds of our employees okay so I talk about this concept often and I think it's important for your viewers to be able to hear it so it's a concept of magic and Magic is meaning autonomy growth impact and connection and so the a is autonomy and that's really making sure that they are able to do tasks without always needing a supervisor without always needing my approval and being able to say here's a task that's on my plate that I can give to one of my senior employees and then that's going to make them feel like they have a little bit more engagement in the work that they're doing and I think one thing that happens with Employee Engagement you know we look at things like the money that they're making or the benefits that they have but we don't look at how we're utilizing them so underutilizing people or not utilizing the full skill set skill set of your staff is just as bad for employee engagement as not paying them adequate wages or you know not giving them opportunities to be promoted so you know for me it's really making sure employees are working to the top of their skill set they feel like they're able to use all their skills and I think that's also where knowing your employees and knowing your teams you may have an employee that on the side they have a side business and they know everything about Google analytics and we find out these nuggets as we're doing things like our met program or just engagement surveys or just focus groups with our employees so I think for me it's making sure that people are working to the top of their skill set I know what those skills are as a leader I know where they want to grow not every employee wants to be in leadership so for those that don't how do I keep them engaged every day by making sure that we're stretching them and we're growing them excellent advice especially coming from someone who I know that you desire to be in leadership you love working in leadership it can be challenging not to kind of put that onto others who were trying to Mentor so I really like that you take that approach I'll ask you kind of a final question here what are the biggest or one of the biggest challenges especially in the Northeast us or the Philadelphia Market that we are facing when it comes to customer experience I think it is our disadvantaged populations when they're facing things that we don't often think about so when I go to conferences everyone wants to talk about AI or telea health and we have done we do Mentor sessions with some of the charter schools from Philadelphia we see the internet is spotty they may be living in neighborhoods that have a lot of crime I once asked one of the young men I said what are you most afraid of and he said I'm most afraid that when I'm going to walk to school I'm going to be shot and killed and that has always stayed with me so I think know the thing that we have to think about really is now how do we put our customer at the center of what we do how do we meet them where they are again not always saying if you have a problem you have to call us giving them these other options well you can see us out of the community center you can come out to this event and our team is going to be there to help you so I think about where people are and every kind of population that we serve is different so if you're Hispanic Latino if you're black if you're Asian thinking about the nuances of how those populations receive care and you know that's really critical I think so I think that's one thing missing is that we assume that in present day everyone has reliable internet a smartphone um all these things transportation to their appointments and we find out more as we talk to people and we do focus groups we meet them on their level and say what are you really struggling with it changes the whole dialogue and trajectory of our strategy for our members and patients and how we can best care for them you were talking about the storytelling the being able to represent data when we're speaking with the members of our population from so many incredibly amazing diverse backgrounds what skills are you utilizing so that we can really adapt this system to make sure it works for everyone what skills do we need to develop to do that yeah so I think it is being able to personalize which is one of the most important things about customer experience so using that member's preferred name knowing when they would like us to call them and that's all contained in our EMR or our you know customer relationship management our CRM system so that's important getting that true member voice not just guessing a lot of organizations guess even outside of healthcare they guess at what someone wants but they're not actually going to them and asking and how that perception is so I think personalizing that and really also communicating with them at a understanding level they understand too many times something will come across my desks and I say hey guys this is written at a 12th grade reading level you know we have to really be at the level that our members are at and at the end of the day it's also representation representation matters so much you know in leadership it matters for a young woman to be able to see a woman like herself rise to a position when we're dealing with Healthcare we're serving our members they need to see people that look like them that use their language that live in their neighborhoods and I think that's one of the things I'm so proud of at Jefferson h plans our members can see themselves in the employees that are caring and serving them absolutely that's been one of the biggest I think boosts to our customer service ratings as you know we're among the best for customer service in the whole state for of Pennsylvania I think it's because when somebody's talking about different streets in Philadelphia different locations we know where they're going you know we're not at a call center in Arkansas or something we really know what's going on with them and as you mentioned we're doing these events we're trying to get out there our community center is located in an area where it's accessible to a lot of people so I think that's really good advice for other plans who want to get that customer experience up there I really do appreciate you taking your time this Saturday to come on for the first episode of CX matters I couldn't be more appreciative of course and it's just such a pleasure to work with you and hear how the podcast continues to grow so wish be much success</p>