<p>hello everyone this is Cole from the American Journal of healthc care strategy and here with me is Nathan Nathan please introduce yourself hey everyone my name's Nathan hail I'm a current administrative fellow at Mayo Clinic and um just really excited to be here talk more about Fellowship experience and grad school experience and hope I can help [Music] we're so happy to have you with us this evening Nathan thanks for joining us so you have a bachelor in healthcare administration a lot of people it seems like they have a bachelor's in something and they transition to healthcare administration later did you know you wanted to be in healthcare administration right from the beginning so for me I I was very fortunate to find out early on that I wanted to do healthcare administration but it wasn't always the plan but for me it started out as I knew I wanted to be in some sort of healthcare related area um but I knew I didn't want to be on the clinical site itself and so I started initially with a public health degree at my undergrad and for that degree we were required to take an intro to healthcare administration class so I took that class and within a week or two I was like okay this this is it it's calling me and haven't looked back since I was very fortunate in that regard undergraduate was in healthcare admin and then I loved it so much that I continued on into master's degree doing healthcare administration but that was kind of like the initial interest wanting to be involved in the healthc care scene but not wanting to play a clinical role wanting to be part of like decisionmaking though and helping with um improving processes and quality and and whatnot excellent that that's good for you I know it's always challenging when you have to switch Midway for for some of our I want to ask about that um one of the things I've been wondering is when you get your you know Bachelor's in healthcare administration and then you get your Masters in healthcare administration do you find yourself learning lots of new things in the master's program not necessarily I'd say that it's a review in some regard but it's at a higher level and it is still beneficial now there was some crossover where I'd be in a healthcare finance class and funny enough I actually had the same textbook that I used from undergrad and so in that regard it was nice cuz I saved money I kept the textbook from undergrad so that was really nice to to use that again but there there were two different learning environments like for an example an undergrad it was learning all of it for the first time in grad school it was a confirmation of what I had already learned but adding on to it so adding more details and then on top of that a lot more case studies in grad school that wasn't something that I was anticipating and it was something that I was very grateful for because because I find that postgraduation I use the case study model in my head a lot when I'm trying to solve problems and so it's been interesting to see how school has played a role I think in the moment it's kind of like you're tied to the classroom and you're ready to spread your wings and fly away as cheesy as that sounds but once you get to the field you realize oh wait like the stuff I was learning I can see why I learned that now it's so important and everything and so so yeah some crossover but I wouldn't say I have like any regrets or anything of doing both Healthcare admin because I think if anything it just helped me learn it maybe faster in the grad school setting and understand it faster but I still have plenty of questions I'm a curious person nice that's great though that's really good and then can you give us an example of what that looks like because I'm you know just we're just starting to go over cases in uh business school and so what does it look like when you apply them in terms of the thinking process you said that you apply from your cases that you went over in the real world what does that look like yeah I think for so I I think every student you ask is they might have a different answer depending on where they went to grad school with University of Utah at least they were very intentional on using case studies from real life experiences and so the faculty one thing that I loved about my experience there was the case studies that we went over in class were from real life experience of the faculty from when they were working in hospitals leading hospitals and so a lot of times what it would look like is they would give us this real world scenario we would our homework would be to solve the case and then come to class with our Solutions but then it led to open discussion like I thought of this oh I didn't think about it that way well I thought about this oh I didn't think about it you know really good discussion and the teacher was able to say like oh we tried that but it didn't work out and then the end of the class would be the ultimate decision that the teacher did make and so it's cool just seeing like the full circle because you were so invested in the actual case but as far as like transferring that to work now the models that they used were very helpful for me and so I think it's a Six Sigma model Define measure analyze improve control but that's one that really helped me and so like if I'm in a scenario where I'm trying to solve a certain issue I'm working on a project and I just need to kind of get my bearings then I fall back on that okay Define the problem measure opportunities analyze improve control like what is the step rather than going right to the solution having a rubric has helped me a lot University of Utah had a specific outline for case studies as well that focused on identifying like key stakeholders important facts to consider and then also considering alternative Solutions rather than just jumping right to your recommendation and I like that too because it gave me it allowed me to strengthen my I'd say my critical thinking muscle so instead of just like oh obviously it's this I had to consider oh but now that I think about it that actually wouldn't work and so Alyssa as an alternative solution if XYZ happens kind of thing and I liked that and I found that in my work today I use that as well where I consider other Alternatives and then ultimately come down to one solution and I'm not saying that's a university Utah exclusive thing that's all I have to speak to since that's where I went but that's something that I've found myself actively using in the real world um as I'm in the fellowship I think that way of doing the cases is is pretty special where it's things that the faculty actually have EXP experienced yeah yeah because that that's a big deal that's really nice yeah and that was something that was like appealing to me with University of Utah I wanted to go to an mha program that had people who worked in the healthc care field I think there's pros to I mean obviously there's going to be Pros to any program you go to for grad school but that was just something that stood out to me and it was something that I was looking at pregg grad school and in postgrad school looking back on it I still stand by the belief of like oh yeah that was so instrumental in my growing and learning experience so really appreciated that and I think too the idea of how they taught you the how important the process was like you said like not jumping to that end point because yes that is like I don't have you gotten your Six Sigma uh Green Belt yet I haven't you know it's funny I paid for a program to get it virtually probably a year and a half two years ago now and I I made the mistake of doing it while I was actively fulltime a full-time student and so it kind of got pushed to the back but I still have like the credit to do it and so I just need to do it now but I've I've learned practices in the classroom setting and I know classmates who took we had a Six Sigma um green bell option to take like you could take that class and it just didn't align with my schedule but I know students who did do it and I want to do it it's on the healthcare admin bucket list if you will yeah of course yeah because it's like a lot of that what you're saying is like the most important I felt like was the most important parts of it is the stuff that like yeah there's like the statistics and like some of the the Frameworks that are cool yeah but it's the idea that you need to like force yourself to like walk the process like continuous Improvement mindset like the stuff you're saying is like the most important part so no exactly yeah so you came out of you know grad school it seems like you're really well prepared they seems like they had a really good program and then you you know you have some experiences of course but then you decide to go for a fellowship can I ask what was your reason for applying for a fellowship did you consider not doing one how did that work yeah oh no absolutely so for me it's interesting I have a bit of a unique experience in that I didn't know I wanted do a fellowship until the deadline so for Mayo Clinic specifically I turned in my application 2 days or no no I decided I wanted to do the fellowship two days before the application was due and then I turned it in a day before it was due and I luckily already had letters of recommendation available because I was I was window shopping I was like I I think I want to do it but it wasn't until like two days before that I was like okay I made my decision I'm going to apply kind of thing it's going to be different for every person but for me the reason a fellowship was appealing was I was coming to the close of my grad school degree a year into the program and I still hadn't found that area of healthcare that I wanted to work in I felt like I still wanted to learn more I mentioned earlier I'm a curious person and I think a lot of people can relate to that at least people I've talked to where you know it's it's interesting I think going into the grad school program I was thinking this is what I do to find out what I want to do in healthcare but instead I learn more about Healthcare and I had even more questions about what I wanted to do so it it's kind of like a good problem to have but I I wasn't I didn't have a firm path like a clear Direction on what I wanted to do and so a fellowship was appealing to me because it offered just more exposure to healthcare and specifically a rotational based Fellowship was what was appealing to me because getting that further exposure and then on top of that getting exposure to specific departments and so the fellowships that I was looking for and applying for were all rotation based and that's just what I was interested in I have friends who are in Project based fellowships and I also think those are great I think it's going to be very personal for what you're looking for but for me I wanted a rotation-based one so that I could be somewhere to get more exposure to different areas and different departments to further help my I guess my path and and get a clear idea of what I wanted to do in healthcare ultimately and so with that leaving it up to the day of for for the Mayo how many did you apply to then if I missed it let me know but how many was that no you're good that's another I'm also kind of unique in that regard so I apply to two fellowships Okay that is pretty unique that's one of the the lowest one we've heard is one dang it oh almost had it so close yeah and and the funny thing is is this other one I applied to I didn't get far in at all and so it really wow yeah no I I didn't and so it's interesting to see the night and day difference like one I mean it works out and I got the job and the other one like I I had an a virtual interview and that that's all that happened but for me the reason I I was very mindful of what the number of fellowships I wanted to apply to I wanted to do a fellowship at an organization that I could see myself working at post Fellowship I didn't necessarily want to do a fellowship just to check it off the list like okay I did a fellowship I can add that to the resume now I'll continue looking for work and I'm not saying that's how all fellowships are I just I've met other people who they do a fellowship and then after the fellowship's over it's not guaranteed that you'll stay with the organization and so I wasn't interested in applying to a lot of fellowships I was interested in getting exposure but I wanted to be like I wanted I was very mindful in only applying to places that I could see myself working at fulltime and so that's why I only applied to two I'll say I had two applications ready but I had already heard back from Mayo Clinic and so I didn't submit those ones so technically you could say four was on my radar but that's solely because I only wanted to apply to places that I could see myself at full-time post fellowship and I was also Trea in the fellowship in that regard where I wanted I really wanted it to be getting my foot in the door with an organization rather than just adding to my resume that I did a fellowship and so I think that's why so few for me at least and so with that in mind you know you you have a lot of things you were looking for you're you were being pretty specific about what fellowships you were applying to I want to ask this and not necessarily from the perspective you're in now but from the perspective you were when you were applying yeah other than the rotational nature what Drew to Mayo Clinic what made you say I want to be here for the next you know 10 20 years or or yeah no totally it went back to so Mayo Clinic I I think for one Mayo Clinic you hear about it in the classroom setting especially when you're studying healthcare administration or any health rated degree it comes up in case studies or it's mentioned in various for various reasons and I had first really learned about them in undergrad we were assigned to do I think it was at random too I don't even think I chose the Mayo Clinic but we were given a well- revered Healthcare organization to do a project on and you were supposed to basically dive deeper into what the organization looks like on a day-to-day basis why they're well revered so on and so forth the fun presentations you have to give for classes and so I was assigned Mayo Clinic and that was my first exposure to it it's funny cuz I'm from Arizona and I knew that there was a m Clinic here but I just hadn't really thought about it too much and it was that presentation that made me realize oh this would be an interesting place to work at someday like I'd love to actually consider that but I was in undergrad I knew I had a wild go so I kind of put the thought to the side and then when Fellowship season came around I was iffy on if I wanted to do with Fellowship that's another thing that was unique about me I wasn't like all in on doing a fellowship my attitude was if I get a fellowship perfect like then I'll go that route but if I don't do a fellowship it's not the end of the world it just wasn't meant to be I'm going to go this route instead and so I I think that also goes back to why I applied to so few because it wasn't end of the world kind of thing if I didn't get one but with Mayo Clinic I knew that they had a fellowship and I say that I decided two or three days before the application was due but it was re it was it was after like months of thinking about it it was like weighing the options do I want to stay in Utah because I loved the life I had established there um I had met a lot of great people there's a great Healthcare scene in Utah and I was just very interested in staying there and so that was the hardest thing like am I willing to move but then it just kind of came down to this organization Mayo Clinic is something that you've thought about before and that you care about and so what is it hurt at least applying the reason that there was such an emphasis on Mayo Clinic to begin with besides the class project that I worked on was I was very impressed by their values as anyone does with job searching you get to know a company you get to know their values their mission statement and all that fun stuff for May Clinic they have eight core values it's an acronym Rich ties so it stands for respect Integrity compassion healing teamwork Innovation excellence and stewardship and as I was going through the different values and preparing for the potential of getting an interview I realized that each of the values were something that I could relate to that I felt connected to them and if it wasn't Mayo Clinic I at least found I learned from the experience that I want to work somewhere that I can relate to in that regard and so I'm incredibly blessed that it worked out with Mayo Clinic but to anyone's who's watching I would say have that as a requirement for anywhere you want to work like see if you align with their value and with their mission that was the biggest thing for me in Mayo Clinic and so I was very happy that I was able to be offered a position and work at an organization that cares so much about putting the needs of the patient first and then having those eight values that I mentioned to support that ultimate um value of putting the the patient first so it was just in autal I know I just gave the long story but in a nutshell just working for an organization that had the same values as I did was was very key for me it's interesting too because I found that in talking with different you know fellows different Executives it's not just you know the organizations that we go into we're not just looking for an organization that we're gonna work with but it's also that it's going to shape us we exactly my mindset when I first started in healthcare was I was very like academic research is what I was really interested in doing and Jefferson does some of that but not like as much as like pen does or you know and so my mindset has shifted as well big in population health so now my mindset is towards population health and you know those values are incredibly important not just because of what we want to do but how it's going to affect us what I wonder too is now that you have worked there do you feel like it exceeded expectations I do I I really do and I promise I'm not just saying that because I'm a fellow there right now that I'm like here working for them it it really is a thing that I was actually the closer it got to the fellowship start date the nerve started kicking in like oh my gosh I'm working for Mayo Clinic like I just I was in complete denial to be honest and so it was very nerve-wracking I never easily the biggest place I've ever worked for and so I just didn't know what to expect but within the first week I'll say the first two weeks cuz the first week was all orientation and it was a little overwhelming I think that's the case with any fellow ship though but within the first two weeks I already felt like it was my home as cheesy as that sounds like it was the right place that I was supposed to be at and I had studied these values and learned about how Mayo Clinic lives these values but there's always that concern that when you're starting somewhere it's like okay like how good are they really at Living the values kind of thing yeah exactly and I can confirm that like just everyone was so kind down to like you walk by someone in the hallway and they smile and say hi to you or say happy Friday if it's Friday like you know little things like that where you never talk to that person you never work with that person but they start becoming your like hallway friend because you run into each other from time to time and especially being a new employee and being a deer in the headlights that made such a big difference and just receiving that Hospitality from someone who had worked here for 25 years or more I felt like I was already part of the team even though I had been here for a week or two and that still continues even now like I'm still very young at May Clinic I've been here for eight months but I feel like the expectations have been met and kind of like what you were asking they have been exceeded because I didn't know what to expect but it's it's more than whatever whatever initial thoughts I had I guess just very welcoming environment very kind and they really do one thing that I need think is neat is the primary value of the needs of the patient come first really is lived and all the employees regardless of what your responsibility is and so I could be working on an Excel sheet and although I'm not in the front line working on the clinical side and seeing patients face to face I'm still doing something to move that Vision forward of and that is what really drives home I guess my appreciation towards Mayo Clinic and my experience thus far that is really wonderful because it is that worry when you start that you know and especially when you're not in direct when you're in direct patient care I think in a way like you are it doesn't matter what the organization's choices are you're always going to be doing the best for the patients but when you're in administration it's like am I really going to be helping patients or am I gonna be you know so it's nice to see that you feel like you're able to really touch people's lives yeah and really living those values that's beautiful thank you thank you I agree yeah so I want some more technical details too because it's such a such a big organization um how many employees do you know do they have are we like a 100,000 like how many employees are there oh my goodness I don't even know if I could answer that that is a good question I I I should have done my homework I don't know that I know the answer to that I'm gonna have to look this up here and because there's a bunch of different locations as well right yeah exactly we have three okay let me let let me take that back we have six sites in the country three of them are destination medical centers and then we have the health system which spans across Wisconsin and Minnesota but the one I'm so I'm me Phoenix and then there's Jacksonville Florida and Rochester Minnesota that was the first one yeah and those are like the three kind of the medical tourism yeah yeah the big medical centers so we have those three and then we have three additional health sites but then even beyond that we have additional clinics throughout and so like for an example here in Arizona there's the Phoenix campus but then there's also the Scottsdale campus and then we have like a sports and Ortho medicine campus in Tempe and so things like that we have like a separate campus in another area but the two big campuses are scotsville and Phoenix so I I I do not know the answer to that it's impressive I looked it up just now 880,000 employees so about double the size of Jeffers wow with that in mind have you met the senior leadership is that something that you've been like have you met the CEO like what is that that's a good question yeah for Arizona yes for Rochester no and that's just because I'm in Arizona for obvious reasons but yeah so it Mayo Clinic is interesting in the fact that they're not a traditional health system in regards of like the CEO is admin related and so the CEO is a clinical doctor doctor his name's Dr Gray here in Arizona and then we have ceao which is like the equivalent to a CE an administrative CEO at another organization and they're just the chief administrative officer but I've met with both of them they they set up a one-on-one for us to meet with the CEO specifically to better get to know her her name is roshi she's incredible but then also just in random interaction so I've sat in meetings with them and then been at conferences where I ran into them and whatnot but it's cool because they they get to know you you're not just like another person working here they know you by name and they love to hear your feedback one thing that really stood out to me was in my one-on-one with the CAO roshi um she asked me she said if there's ever anything you see me doing that could be improved like please give me recommendations please give me feedback and I'm like you're the CEO you shouldn't be asking me I should be asking you for feedback but it was just so hum humbling just to see that humility in her and that she's a CEO she's the the highest you can go in admin for Mayo Clinic and yet she's still looking for opportunities to improve and so yeah have had interactions with them and have been very impressed with them as well that's great wow so how do you are you you know just for people who aren't from Phoenix we don't need to you know disclose any specific salary details but is it is it with with the salary that you're getting as a fellows is it comfortable to live there is you know how's the cost of living what's that been like for you it's been great I've been fine there have been no scenarios where I've been struggling with money I it's been fine I've been able to meet my needs and also pay all the fun bills and the monthly rent and all that and so it's definitely affordable and they provide you with that they make sure that you're provided with the amount you need and then on top of that there is a relocation fee that they give to you as well to to help you move to the new state and everything so they're very considerate of that one of the questions that I'm gonna start introducing and I'm doing this from my own personal interest as well but is is is uh and I I'm doing this because I've been meeting with fellows in the Midwest and in the Northeast and it's drastically different it's like a spectrum so one of the questions I'm introducing is is this a roommate a apartment or a house rental situation that we have't Fe pH on the fellowship salary so that's a really good question because it's different for each fellow I would say so like for an example yeah so like for an example I am renting a room in um about 30 minutes away from Phoenix and I have roommates we it's like a house and we each have our own room so I'm renting a room in that regard but I have roommates as well we just share common Living Spaces but then my co- fellow she's living in an apartment and and she's able to afford that and she's closer to work and so that's just it's kind of a preference thing of where you want to live you're not forced to per se have 10 roommates in a communal bathroom like you might be oh my gosh no yeah no definitely not I mean if you want to do that yeah by all means you want to save the money to go for it but you're definitely you have enough money to live comfortably the hours are reasonable or has it been a lot more work than you expected no it's been very they've been very mindful they care about work life balance as well so they encourage you when you need a mental health day like take a day off they want you to show up being your best self and feeling your best as well and so they're okay like obviously we have PTO and whatnot but they're okay with you taking a day off if you need to just kind of re refocus but on top of that they also encourage you to like take vacations if you have a planned vacation they want you to take it they're not like oh what's that going to do to your work like nothing like that they like one of the first things I think they that we learned in orientation was like your mental health is important take time off like you have PTO for a reason use it don't let it go to ways kind of thing and then on top of that they really care too about your work life balance and so in my one-on ones with my um site director she has been very mindful of asking like how is life outside of work like have you had things to do how are you doing like are you enjoying Arizona and adapting to it and I know from other fellows I've heard from in at Mayo Clinic and other sites it's very similar there as well like we encourage you to get involved with the community and find cool new hobbies and whatnot it's not it's far from a job of just like showing up to get your work done and then disappearing you feel like you do play a role here and that's been very instrumental I think in going back to what we talked about in exceeding my expectations like I feel like I'm an active member of the male clinic family I'm not just here to get a paycheck kind of thing that's that's really wonderful I'm happy for you Nathan and I'm happy for Mayo Clinic that they get to have someone who so skill so congratulations on that that is excellent and thank you again for joining us this evening yeah thank you so much cole happy to be here</p>